Author Topic: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?  (Read 606 times)

Offline sasheto

  • Junior Community Member
  • *
  • Registered: 07/06/2014
    YearsYearsYears
  • Ingame: SashkO#R
  • Squad: Raven_Squad
Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #15 on: 11 01, 2017, 08:36:28 pm »
For men a low body fat percentage can be dangerous for their testosteron production. (The average healthy body fat percentage is 18% to 25%)
The part with with the low body fat and the testosterone lower production I agree. For the average healthy bodyfat I personally disagree. I'd say that the healthy bodyfat percentage for a man is 10-20. Below 10% the testosterone production really decreases and this is a fact. About the maximum it is really hard to tell but keep in mind that with every percent of bodyfat above 12-15%, the testosterone levels decreases while the estrogen levels increases which may still be unhealthy, yet that quite depends on the person, his lifestyle, and his diet.
Typically, yes. But not all the case. There are people with low body fat but looks fat. And body composition is the main cause of that:
This happens because their lack of muscle mass, not because of their body type. It doesn't matter if you have low body fat. if you lack of  muscle mass, but maintain high body mass you will look fat no matter what.
« Last Edit: 11 01, 2017, 08:39:34 pm by sasheto »

Offline Claire

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • La vie est belle
  • Registered: 15/07/2013
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Ingame: Claire
Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #16 on: 11 01, 2017, 09:01:56 pm »
Well.. bones density affect your body type too in some ways (you might wanna see the equation for it). And also, bones produce hormone that can alter "growth", fat, and insulin level. It's called osteocalcin. Mainly it's a regulation of energy metabolism by the skeleton and so it may affect body fat measures. So technically, races/people with more/less bones density are more/less likely to produce more/less osteocalcin thus more/less likely to have more/less body fat in addition to their different bones volume index causing different look to their appearance. I refer to this study, by the way: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854645/

Edit: fixed unclear statement that could be potentially misleading
« Last Edit: 11 01, 2017, 09:19:07 pm by Claire »
Polymathic | I/O Psychologist | Techie | Painter | Writer | Bibliophile | Old Soul | #nerd

"Diversity is the one true thing we all have in common. Celebrate it every day."

Offline sasheto

  • Junior Community Member
  • *
  • Registered: 07/06/2014
    YearsYearsYears
  • Ingame: SashkO#R
  • Squad: Raven_Squad
Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #17 on: 12 01, 2017, 12:01:37 am »
Well.. bones density affect your body type too in some ways (you might wanna see the equation for it). And also, bones produce hormone that can alter "growth", fat, and insulin level. It's called osteocalcin. Mainly it's a regulation of energy metabolism by the skeleton and so it may affect body fat measures. So technically, races/people with more/less bones density are more/less likely to produce more/less osteocalcin thus more/less likely to have more/less body fat in addition to their different bones volume index causing different look to their appearance. I refer to this study, by the way: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854645/

Edit: fixed unclear statement that could be potentially misleading
I may missed this part so forgive my ignorance, but I couldn't see anywhere in this study that the osteocalcin levels are actually affected by the bones density. Perhaps there is connection between the osteocalcin and the energy metabolism it does affect the body fat storage, and I never argued about that different people store the fat in different ways which depends on the metabolism which is connected to your research(we are in a loop).
Yet low body fat is low body fat and if you maintain good body/muscle mass ratio you won't be fat, tho' I still don't have an idea what you people consider as low bodyfat. The bones structure(bones density) affect the way you look, I mean that yes some do look better at lets say 15% than others, and that is caused by the bones structure more or less(perhaps this is  what you meant , but hey I want to shine too  0:)), but until you tell me how many bodyfat percentages you consider as low I can't really tell the reason.

just saw ur post having lowbody fat is not unhealthy let me give u example of a famous football player like cristiano ronaldo he has extremy low bodyfat, he has 3% less bf then an average fitness supermodel :tick:
It is impossible for a natural to be on 3% bodyfat and maintain it believe it or not. I won't really repeat things over and over again.
You may check this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23412685 and see how does the low bodyfat actually affects natural bodybuilder in this case. Something else which isn't mentioned in this study  but it is partly connected to the testosterone production is the lower level of leptin hormones.
Conclusion: It is impossible that CR is on 3% and keep maintains it. Even a profesional IFFB competitor who takes shitload of steroids and other hormones has 3-6% bodyfat stage physique , and after the competition he goes back to above 10%+.
I'd personally give CR 7-9% bodyfat.




Offline Claire

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • La vie est belle
  • Registered: 15/07/2013
    YearsYearsYearsYears
  • Ingame: Claire
Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #18 on: 12 01, 2017, 02:38:20 am »
Quote
... but I couldn't see anywhere in this study that the osteocalcin levels are actually affected by the bones density. Perhaps there is connection between the osteocalcin and the energy metabolism it does affect the body fat storage, and I never argued about that different people store the fat in different ways which depends on the metabolism which is connected to your research(we are in a loop).
It's still a premature science, though. Also I'm not an anatomy expert. I only had a University level of medical study for a year before I switched to behavior science. So.. feel free to seek for validation to my statements. But well.. I always suspected there must be correlation between bones density, mass, and size to the rest of body composition. Because I have an aunt who had 2% more BF than me, same height, but she was 8kg heavier than me. It didn't make sense to me.

I mean when I said I refer to that study, there's a pretty solid prove about that now indeed; in that study, osteocalcin is dependent to vitamin D status (which is important to the bones density/solidity. Greater vit D = greater bone density). Greater bone density = less osteoblasts work (responsible for bones reconstruction) = less osteocalcins (produced by osteoblast). Based on the data, obese people are more likely to have lower osteocalcin level. Also bigger people are more likely to have denser bones due to less stress to the bones. Some people are also naturally gifted with denser bones (which makes them hypothetically may/may not genetic to less osteocalcin). That's why I wrote "more/less" because the data is statistical and not absolute. The study also very specific to race types which correlate to other related studies.

Simple example: In the US, minorities are more likely to get obese http://stateofobesity.org/disparities/ However, these data are very simplistic. Doesn't tell dietary, etc.

The whole bones structure is another thing, though. I always wonder why Caucasians are relatively bigger than Asians. And why blacks relatively looked more muscular than Caucasians. It's genetic breeds above all, I guess. It's more than just BF%. For instace, bone mineral content and bone mineral density are lower in Asians than in Caucasians. So don't tell me race doesn't matter in forming body types. (โ—”โ—กโ—”) I think there must be genetic codes that science doesn't know yet.
Polymathic | I/O Psychologist | Techie | Painter | Writer | Bibliophile | Old Soul | #nerd

"Diversity is the one true thing we all have in common. Celebrate it every day."