Author Topic: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?  (Read 571 times)

Offline Joanna

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #15 on: 11 01, 2017, 05:18:50 pm »
No ass wtf

Anybody need some amount of healthy fat, About eating much I eat 5,6 times per day but I dont get fat because its something hereditary from my parents  that my body burn the food fast even If didnt do any workoutWtf you are joking, my body fat is 10% and I am okeyfor the first time I am convinced of something you said
I said average, which doesn't mean it's only about the body fat percentage of 1 person, but of multiple.
"Tho, the amounts of average body fat percentages are also divided in age, mostly the older you are, the more % your average body fat should be."
Click here to know more about it
Just live your life the way you want it, if you somehow made the wrong decision all you will get is life experience if it didn't kill you. And life experience is the best way of learning, it's practical learning, not theoretical. See things in a good way. We all regret things sometimes, but it means we learned from "practical learning", life experience. It makes the chance of making the same mistake lower. We can't change the past, but we can lead the future.

Offline Claire

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #16 on: 11 01, 2017, 06:00:34 pm »
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People are just not happy about the fact that everyone is being told to eat as much as they want as long as they're happy and things like that. Why don't I go around promoting smoking? That's the exact same to me.

Those 3 bodytypes are nothing but labels for how certain people look. Regardless of what you look like, you can eat enough and gain weight.

I have a friend who started working out with me 5 months ago. He was as skinny or as "ectomorphic" as you can get at around 59 KG. You'd think he'd never gain weight judging by he looked. It's been 5 months and now he's 69-70kg KG. He's starting to look more like a "mesomorph" now as he's gaining mass and his shoulders are getting wider. Eat above your maintenance and you'll gain weight, regardless of whatever the hell you are. Eat below and you would lose weight.

I was bulking and I looked more like an endomorph, as I became 96kg. After I finished my bulk, I started cutting and now I am at around 85 KG and look like a "mesomorph". Those body types aren't exactly a genetic thing. I could stop maintaining my muscle mass and go completely skinny. I was lose muscle and fat tissue, my shoulders will get narrower, my legs will get skinnier and so as everything else and I might actually look like an ectomorph. Those body types mean nothing and aren't a permanent thing.

The females that you mentioned and Siko did look like that because they're eating enough to maintain their bodyweights. If Ashley Graham reduced her caloric intake at her current activity level, her weight will decrease simply because she's not consuming enough to maintain her current mass, regardless of what is. People's caloric maintenance levels vary due to a variety of factors such as muscle mass and activity level.

I can't stand when people on social media tell kids and stuff to eat whatever they like and just be happy with how they look when they're morbidly obese and are going to or already are facing health problems because of overeating. Like I said, why not promote smoking as it's also going to have horrible effects on your body?
I don't advocate excessive eating nor unhealthy foods, though. Personally I'm in a strict DASH diet because I found it's the most healthy plan to me. What I meant to say was we can't force people to live their life they way we want them to be -- as long as it doesn't damage other people around them. It's different with smoking because it does awful damage to the people around them. If you're worried with kids embracing that kinda way of life, that's what parents are for. And also there are biological reasons why some people are bigger. Judging them don't help, really.

And yea.. honestly, I don't know the genetic name of "endomorph". So I came to it because I figured people would probably hear about that somewhere. But from the perspective of genes, there are people who have denser bone density, different body composition, certain racial characteristics and those will make them look "endomorphy". For example, Ashley Graham or Nicki Minaj will still look "pear-shaped" even if they're super skinny creating an illusion of "fat look". Perhaps a picture will speak a thousand words:

Warning: nudity inside
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That's how beauty looks like in West Papua and New Guinea. As you can see they have different compositions of what makes mainstream beauty. These women on the pics are the skinny ones, though.

Some people have that kinda genes that make them look fat and even more likely to get fatter than others. I suggest you to read about FTO gene for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTO_gene. Surely there are other genes involved but my medical knowledge regarding to it isn't that broad.

Also don't forget other reasons of why some people are more likely to get fatter (in case you wanna conduct research about them) and read in mind that just because certain ways work for you, doesn't mean it will too to different people:

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• There are people who eat a lot and still skinny (my kinda people)
• There are people who eat so little and still fat. 
• There are people who successfully exercised their obese body.
• There are people who don't exercise at all but skinny and many more. 

It could be genetic such as the role of FTO gene; hormonal like hypothyroidism; environment that doesn't let them to be any of the specifics; roles of dynamic metabolism; the level of physical activities (some people have limitation to do activities cuz certain conditions); gut bacteria behaviours; things that science not yet know, impossible to know, or still poorly studied; psychological; race; or could be several things simultaneously.


You can hate or fight those people who promote excessive eating, etc on social media. But I think they don't represent the actual feelings and struggles of the ample/corpulent/overweight people have in real life. And anyway, could you give me example of these people in social media? Like a link or hashtags or something.
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Offline Snipe

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #17 on: 11 01, 2017, 06:54:27 pm »
I know it depends on bodies
what I meant is "squat for a big butt"

You never said that. Are you expecting me to read your mind or something?

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Got it boy?
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Age:16
ok...

The first picture doesn't even look like a squat ass, just BF in her thighs.



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I don't advocate excessive eating nor unhealthy foods, though. Personally I'm in a strict DASH diet because I found it's the most healthy plan to me. What I meant to say was we can't force people to live their life they way we want them to be -- as long as it doesn't damage other people around them. It's different with smoking because it does awful damage to the people around them. If you're worried with kids embracing that kinda way of life, that's what parents are for. And also there are biological reasons why some people are bigger. Judging them don't help, really.

And yea.. honestly, I don't know the genetic name of "endomorph". So I came to it because I figured people would probably hear about that somewhere. But from the perspective of genes, there are people who have denser bone density, different body composition, certain racial characteristics and those will make them look "endomorphy". For example, Ashley Graham or Nicki Minaj will still look "pear-shaped" even if they're super skinny creating an illusion of "fat look". Perhaps a picture will speak a thousand words:

Warning: nudity inside
Show content

That's how beauty looks like in West Papua and New Guinea. As you can see they have different compositions of what makes mainstream beauty. These women on the pics are the skinny ones, though.

Some people have that kinda genes that make them look fat and even more likely to get fatter than others. I suggest you to read about FTO gene for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTO_gene. Surely there are other genes involved but my medical knowledge regarding to it isn't that broad.

Also don't forget other reasons of why some people are more likely to get fatter (in case you wanna conduct research about them) and read in mind that just because certain ways work for you, doesn't mean it will too to different people:


You can hate or fight those people who promote excessive eating, etc on social media. But I think they don't represent the actual feelings and struggles of the ample/corpulent/overweight people have in real life. And anyway, could you give me example of these people in social media? Like a link or hashtags or something.

I don't judge or hate people for their appearance. What I said in my post is I dislike those who promote unhealthy lifestyles or misguide people into thinking that it's okay to be obese. Replace smoking with any other activity which results in the destruction of your own health.

I highly doubt that Nicki Minaj or Ashley Graham would be pair shaped if they were super skinny. That makes zero sense since. They look pear shaped because of high BF%/implants and not their bones/muscle mass. Never seen bones or anything other than fat make people look fat. High BF% is High BF% regardless of your gender or race.

This girl that trains at my gym used to be quite obese and looked proper pear shaped at her peak BF%. She lost a lot of the weight and now looks skinny.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMrPdE9gn-s/?taken-by=ohfitness_ie
Plenty of examples out there.

>beauty looks like in West Papua and New Guinea.

I am not debating beauty. People have their own preferences, I have mine and I respect everyone else's. As I previously said, I hate pushing this whole "body acceptance" thing. Plenty of example online, we have even been told that it's okay to be fat by a teacher before. #Bodyacceptance on instagram is an example

Yes, some people have medical conditions which limit them to do things like diet or exercise. Those people are exceptions and not the rule. Your post is kind of implying that I have something against or hate obese people. Absolutely not. You choosing to do whatever you want with your body is your choice which is your own business.

People have different metabolisms and different caloric maintenance levels due to a few variables. You can adjust your diet to your metabolism and control your weight. Most people can do that without many problems.


Offline Claire

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #18 on: 11 01, 2017, 08:25:28 pm »
@Snipe Perhaps this topic is very sensitive to me because I was once a judgy bitch in the past (I'm not proud of that). I don't mean to make you feel like that, though. My posts are for everyone in this thread and anyone who would read it. Especially that relative beauties part (Papuan) because people here posting sexualized skinny Caucasians like they're sex objects or something.

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Yes, some people have medical conditions which limit them to do things like diet or exercise. Those people are exceptions and not the rule.
But would people know that they have those kinda conditions? Many people don't know that their obese problems could be medical/psychological because well.. Internet.. and media.. and too shy to ask.. judgy people.. etc. And actually to my knowledge on my lists, those are all COMMON medical conditions; even hypothyroidism. So yea.. there's likelihood that what you refer to "most people" have one of those conditions, but they didn't know it. And we just thought they're just lazy and glutton.

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People have different metabolisms and different caloric maintenance levels due to a few variables. You can adjust your diet to your metabolism and control your weight.
That's the common problem, actually. Just next to too much irregular eating window (so your body won't able to learn the calories habit) + lacking of physical activities. Some overweight people have very slow dynamic metabolism rates (their body won't convert/down regulate excess calories as energy) in addition of their gut flora maximising the calories they recover from food = fat. So they have to live unhappy life to slim down.

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Never seen bones or anything other than fat make people look fat. High BF% is High BF% regardless of your gender or race.
Typically, yes. But not all the case. There are people with low body fat but looks fat. And body composition is the main cause of that:

Quote
In physical fitness, body composition is used to describe the percentages of fat, bone, water and muscle in human bodies. Because muscular tissue takes up less space in our body than fat tissue, our body composition, as well as our weight, determines leanness. Two people of same sex and body weight may look completely different from each other because they have a different body composition - Wikipedia
And some races have different body composition types just like the Papuan.
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Offline sasheto

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #19 on: 11 01, 2017, 08:36:28 pm »
For men a low body fat percentage can be dangerous for their testosteron production. (The average healthy body fat percentage is 18% to 25%)
The part with with the low body fat and the testosterone lower production I agree. For the average healthy bodyfat I personally disagree. I'd say that the healthy bodyfat percentage for a man is 10-20. Below 10% the testosterone production really decreases and this is a fact. About the maximum it is really hard to tell but keep in mind that with every percent of bodyfat above 12-15%, the testosterone levels decreases while the estrogen levels increases which may still be unhealthy, yet that quite depends on the person, his lifestyle, and his diet.
Typically, yes. But not all the case. There are people with low body fat but looks fat. And body composition is the main cause of that:
This happens because their lack of muscle mass, not because of their body type. It doesn't matter if you have low body fat. if you lack of  muscle mass, but maintain high body mass you will look fat no matter what.
« Last Edit: 11 01, 2017, 08:39:34 pm by sasheto »

Offline Claire

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #20 on: 11 01, 2017, 09:01:56 pm »
Well.. bones density affect your body type too in some ways (you might wanna see the equation for it). And also, bones produce hormone that can alter "growth", fat, and insulin level. It's called osteocalcin. Mainly it's a regulation of energy metabolism by the skeleton and so it may affect body fat measures. So technically, races/people with more/less bones density are more/less likely to produce more/less osteocalcin thus more/less likely to have more/less body fat in addition to their different bones volume index causing different look to their appearance. I refer to this study, by the way: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854645/

Edit: fixed unclear statement that could be potentially misleading
« Last Edit: 11 01, 2017, 09:19:07 pm by Claire »
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Offline Joanna

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #21 on: 11 01, 2017, 09:11:02 pm »
The part with with the low body fat and the testosterone lower production I agree. For the average healthy bodyfat I personally disagree. I'd say that the healthy bodyfat percentage for a man is 10-20. Below 10% the testosterone production really decreases and this is a fact. About the maximum it is really hard to tell but keep in mind that with every percent of bodyfat above 12-15%, the testosterone levels decreases while the estrogen levels increases which may still be unhealthy, yet that quite depends on the person, his lifestyle, and his diet.
Average doesn't mean it counts for everyone.
It's the average amount of percent, some people have less, others have more.
Just live your life the way you want it, if you somehow made the wrong decision all you will get is life experience if it didn't kill you. And life experience is the best way of learning, it's practical learning, not theoretical. See things in a good way. We all regret things sometimes, but it means we learned from "practical learning", life experience. It makes the chance of making the same mistake lower. We can't change the past, but we can lead the future.

Offline sasheto

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #22 on: 12 01, 2017, 12:01:37 am »
Well.. bones density affect your body type too in some ways (you might wanna see the equation for it). And also, bones produce hormone that can alter "growth", fat, and insulin level. It's called osteocalcin. Mainly it's a regulation of energy metabolism by the skeleton and so it may affect body fat measures. So technically, races/people with more/less bones density are more/less likely to produce more/less osteocalcin thus more/less likely to have more/less body fat in addition to their different bones volume index causing different look to their appearance. I refer to this study, by the way: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4854645/

Edit: fixed unclear statement that could be potentially misleading
I may missed this part so forgive my ignorance, but I couldn't see anywhere in this study that the osteocalcin levels are actually affected by the bones density. Perhaps there is connection between the osteocalcin and the energy metabolism it does affect the body fat storage, and I never argued about that different people store the fat in different ways which depends on the metabolism which is connected to your research(we are in a loop).
Yet low body fat is low body fat and if you maintain good body/muscle mass ratio you won't be fat, tho' I still don't have an idea what you people consider as low bodyfat. The bones structure(bones density) affect the way you look, I mean that yes some do look better at lets say 15% than others, and that is caused by the bones structure more or less(perhaps this is  what you meant , but hey I want to shine too  0:)), but until you tell me how many bodyfat percentages you consider as low I can't really tell the reason.

just saw ur post having lowbody fat is not unhealthy let me give u example of a famous football player like cristiano ronaldo he has extremy low bodyfat, he has 3% less bf then an average fitness supermodel :tick:
It is impossible for a natural to be on 3% bodyfat and maintain it believe it or not. I won't really repeat things over and over again.
You may check this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23412685 and see how does the low bodyfat actually affects natural bodybuilder in this case. Something else which isn't mentioned in this study  but it is partly connected to the testosterone production is the lower level of leptin hormones.
Conclusion: It is impossible that CR is on 3% and keep maintains it. Even a profesional IFFB competitor who takes shitload of steroids and other hormones has 3-6% bodyfat stage physique , and after the competition he goes back to above 10%+.
I'd personally give CR 7-9% bodyfat.




Offline Claire

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Re: Should we stop promoting fat/unhealty body types?
« Reply #23 on: 12 01, 2017, 02:38:20 am »
Quote
... but I couldn't see anywhere in this study that the osteocalcin levels are actually affected by the bones density. Perhaps there is connection between the osteocalcin and the energy metabolism it does affect the body fat storage, and I never argued about that different people store the fat in different ways which depends on the metabolism which is connected to your research(we are in a loop).
It's still a premature science, though. Also I'm not an anatomy expert. I only had a University level of medical study for a year before I switched to behavior science. So.. feel free to seek for validation to my statements. But well.. I always suspected there must be correlation between bones density, mass, and size to the rest of body composition. Because I have an aunt who had 2% more BF than me, same height, but she was 8kg heavier than me. It didn't make sense to me.

I mean when I said I refer to that study, there's a pretty solid prove about that now indeed; in that study, osteocalcin is dependent to vitamin D status (which is important to the bones density/solidity. Greater vit D = greater bone density). Greater bone density = less osteoblasts work (responsible for bones reconstruction) = less osteocalcins (produced by osteoblast). Based on the data, obese people are more likely to have lower osteocalcin level. Also bigger people are more likely to have denser bones due to less stress to the bones. Some people are also naturally gifted with denser bones (which makes them hypothetically may/may not genetic to less osteocalcin). That's why I wrote "more/less" because the data is statistical and not absolute. The study also very specific to race types which correlate to other related studies.

Simple example: In the US, minorities are more likely to get obese http://stateofobesity.org/disparities/ However, these data are very simplistic. Doesn't tell dietary, etc.

The whole bones structure is another thing, though. I always wonder why Caucasians are relatively bigger than Asians. And why blacks relatively looked more muscular than Caucasians. It's genetic breeds above all, I guess. It's more than just BF%. For instace, bone mineral content and bone mineral density are lower in Asians than in Caucasians. So don't tell me race doesn't matter in forming body types. (◔◡◔) I think there must be genetic codes that science doesn't know yet.
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