New suggesting systems

[Arran]

Currently, we allow players to post suggestions on the forum and other players up/down vote them. We also allow ministers to post suggestions about their department. Recently, there has been some suggestions which were highly up-voted yet highly flawed.

Example 1
The suggestion about removing rapid transport system was highly up voted yet when it was implemented there was much complaining about it in-game.

Example 2
The suggestion about re-adding Aircraft Carrier Assault as a Criminal Event was highly up voted yet when it was implemented it was so unpopular when there were 700 players online only 6 criminals turned up to it.

In example 1, the voters didn't represent the views of all the players and in example 2, the voters failed to play what they had voted for.

Solution?

We need to look at different suggesting systems, post your ideas here and they will be included in a vote we'll have soon. The ideas that gets the most votes will have a second vote then the idea with most votes will be implemented. If the idea fails to solve these problems then I will either try another idea or simply ignore everyone's suggestions and script whatever I feel like.

List of ideas
1. Exactly how it is now with suggestions board and ministers.
2. Suggestions board and no ministers.
3. Ministers suggesting things only.
4. In-game voting system only.
5. Don't trust players with voting.
6. Use the SMF voting system instead so we can see down votes (suggested by Inferno)
7. Ministers appoint deputies and together they make super suggestions (discussed on IRC)

Note: Ideas which I know won't work and or are too complex won't be added to the list.

[Zach]

It's not necessarily the voters that are doing it, but the actual suggesters themselves.

The suggesters usually either want something new in CIT or something old, but they don't look at the bigger picture. The bigger picture was in the ACA suggestion that the current CEs usually don't have enough people in them because of the time interval being so short making it difficult to gather people, so it was why ACA was so inactive, not it actually being useless.

If the suggester looked at the bigger picture being, the time interval being so short then that person would of known that ACA would of failed.

You can blame the voters to if you want, but that's not going to get anywhere. You need to replace ministers that don't expand on the suggesters idea, not just send something to the ministerial reports and it being utter shit. Suggestions could be easier implemented if Ministers expanded on their idea and made it in-depth as possible as well as looking at the bigger picture and the issues that may of came along with it.

I agree with making Ministers being the ones that control the suggestions and ideas in this server. As long as they are capable of actually expanding on those ideas.

A new voting system or whatever isn't going to solved anything. It's because the suggester and the minister that send the report didn't look at the current problem that already exists, ACA could of been an active criminal event if the person suggesting it realized that adding that event to a 4 minute cycle isn't going to work out well like just imagine if the criminals won the event beforehand without any of them dying, now there's a bunch wanted criminals somehow trying to make it to ACA event, if someone realized that then they could of expanded on that idea and made an entirely new event cycle.

I know it may sound stupid but having some sort of ministry that would look at;

1. The problems in the server and solutions on how to fix them.
2. Expanding in-depth on ideas that may have been suggested and looking at the problems that others may not have already.
3. These would be the guys that official finalize the ministries suggestions along with suggesting ideas of their own, so far some ministries are just sending ideas away without putting any detail into them.

Some ministers are scared to put forward ideas because they assume what your response would be and they don't want to lose their position which is stupid.

Lowering the vehicles prices by 10% because it is not easy to get like 40m to buy hunter or any vehicle else. I'm sure that all the players would like it like old days.

This isn't where you make suggestions

[Ex_TcR]

Ministers somehow did nice works however they sometimes are not sure if something would really improve the system or no / needed or not.

I'm not talking about removing Minister system, its up to you. I am here to suggest Bringing back Committee Members system

How would it be helpful: Since both In-Game and Forums' active people are not common (majority of forum voters are ianctive ingame) so, those Committee Members would be taking care of their sides.

System: Four Committee Members/Representatives from each side (Law, Criminal and civil) who are Active In-Game, Experienced, at least 1 year old, having PC/CB/SO experience. Total Committee Members will be 12 to take care about Civilians, Law and criminals.

Description of approval of forum suggestions: 3 Total Boards Law Representatives, Civilian Representatives & Criminal Representatives , 1 child board named as Approved Suggestions. Only those Committee Members and StaffTeam members will be able to post/create topics while community members will be able to post and non-cms will not be able to post.. Committee Members will be able to move a suggestion to "Approved Suggestions" board. All of these boards will be in a board named as "Committee Members".

Requirements: An experienced player, part of their team for a long time (in short, PC, CB & SO). System will work in a better way as there wont be only one supervisor to take final decision, all 4 active Representatives of X side will approve the suggestion and there'll be comparatively less chances of "not needed" things being approved. They can have IRC channel for discussions of course

Procedure of membership: They'll be chosen by some L3+ staff considering their contribution as well as ingame activity, English skills etc etc. Those Committee members will have these as DUTIES. A new board for Discussions and a child board for "Approved Suggestions/Discussions" to make changes in server would be a lot more helpful. ONLY ONE representative from one group will be accepted to take the seat to prevent bias.

Boards' Description: Those 3 "representatives boards" will not have "vote" thingy in it. Just like "General CIT Discussion", there will be discussions, suggestions and etc. 4 Active most representatives will be taking care of their side. The "Approved Suggestions" will not have permission of "Creating Topics" in it.

The thing is, active 4 representative from each side (of course only active players ingame can take part)

Can be discuss further.


I believe those 3 teams can cover EVERYTHING in this server.

[Prototype]

Upvote/downvote system is under bias control.

- Personal reputation: You make a suggestion and people who love you, respect you they will upvote it if even your suggestion is stupid and your haters, enemies will do same thing but apposite action.

- Fake votes: You make a suggestion and you spam your friends list - skype, steam, whatsapp, IRC or somewhere else where CIT admins don't have access to logs. By fake votes minister or staff members will decide that "suggestion is requested and people love it". So adding that kind of suggestion will make more problems and disagreements.

- Asslicking: Some fool people think that upvoting someone higher and known person's suggestion it will make him look like a cool guy. It is fact. RandomGuy suggests something and suggestion does not get enough support to be added. Later (let's say) Arran makes almost same suggestion then his suggestion gets more than 100-150 upvotes.


Solution (possible way)

- Upgrade upvote/downvote system. Make it so when you click on +1 or -1 you must leave a short message. I don't know how to explain you what I mean but it is similiar to this:

Your vote will not be counted if you don't state any reason. You know that Lx+ admins (and maybe ministers I am not sure) can see who votes for suggestion. So making this will help to avoid bias and stupid votes for no reason.


That's just my opinion

[Zach]

I'm not talking about removing Minister system, its up to you. I am here to suggest Bringing back Committee Members system

I somewhat agree with this idea, but it's exactly like the Minister system just smaller, you've proposed a system/procedure which is exactly what the minister system aims to achieve which I believe won't fix what Arran has stated.

The ministers could, if they wanted too create their own committee within their ministry.

[Ex_TcR]

I somewhat agree with this idea, but it's exactly like the Minister system just smaller, you've proposed a system/procedure which is exactly what the minister system aims to achieve which I believe won't fix what Arran has stated.

The ministers could, if they wanted too create their own committee within their ministry.

Actually, Current system is being handled by only 1 supervisor, in the end, he decides it. It'd OBVIOUSLY be improving the suggestions system if 4 Committee Members/Representatives approves something as to prevent bias as well as to make it like "Very needed things gets approved in a constructive way"


There will not be "vote up/down" thingy in those Committee sections.

I read arran's post carefully and I believe it'd be the best solution as those Committee Members will Discuss thing together and will approve the needed ones.

[Inferno]

System: Four Committee Members/Representatives from each side (Law, Criminal and civil) who are Active In-Game, Experienced, at least 1 year old, having PC/CB/SO experience. Total Committee Members will be 12 to take care about Civilians, Law and criminals.

Description of approval of forum suggestions: 3 Total Boards Law Representatives, Civilian Representatives & Criminal Representatives , 1 child board named as Approved Suggestions. Only those Committee Members and StaffTeam members will be able to post/create topics while community members will be able to post and non-cms will not be able to post.. Committee Members will be able to move a suggestion to "Approved Suggestions" board. All of these boards will be in a board named as "Committee Members".

Requirements: An experienced player, part of their team for a long time (in short, PC, CB & SO). System will work in a better way as there wont be only one supervisor to take final decision, all 4 active Representatives of X side will approve the suggestion and there'll be comparatively less chances of "not needed" things being approved. They can have IRC channel for discussions of course

- Gangsters Representative as well. Why? Criminal and Gangsters are not the same, each team has it own activities and it own addicted players. I believe most of CBs have no idea about LV, as the main course and activities they are doing takes a place on LS.

[seville_blv_1345]

In case of the removal of the RT the upvotes came only because a well-known member of the CIT Community made the suggestion, if a regular player would have made the same suggestion the idea would be more likely downvoted. And this is not the only case: whenever a PC, SO or a CB made a suggestion in the past, his idea got more attention and so more upvotes and this sometimes because of the status of this guys.

So my idea would be that the person who is making a suggestion on the forum stays anonymous (nobody can see his name or anything else).
The person stays on the suggestion board as long anonymous as the suggestion have a result.

[Ex_TcR]

Or, as we've discussed, I summed it all up and wanted to share it here.

My suggestion posted above +

System can be like: Each Ministers can have 4 deputies/assistants having their "representatives titles"  if needed. They will be actually managing everything in the board, they'll be going through every suggestion carefully and will be approving it to their Minister.  Minister will have a talk about the suggestion with those Representatives on maybe IRC etc. If the suggestion gets approved, it'll be moved to Ministerial Reports section.

Outcome: Improves the system, mote people to go through suggestion and approves them instead of only one having full time burden. Those representatives/assistants will be lowering the burden of Ministers + will help in promoting constructive things and improving CIT somehow.

[iamBack]

I don't know about all of you but I believe that not all players should vote , I don't really care if that supports democracy or not but it is just the right thing to do . Only players with high knowledge about the server should vote which means players with more than (+xxx) hours cause most probably these players who spent a lot of hours playing this server and know almost everything about it would make vote depending on their knowledge  . Also , (Without saying names ) Some players who are founders of known groups in the server ask or even order their members to vote for something or downvote for something on their own websites or etc .. Without going off topic , I think that only players with more than 1500+ hours IG should vote .

EDIT : Of course with what I have said above , voting will be only held in game .

[Uardo.]

The only way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas. We can make it so for a limited period of time maybe a week or less, community members are encouraged to come up with as many suggestions as possible. Nobody can reply in a suggestion, the topic will be locked and later moved in another board for public review where we will point out the advantages and disadvantages and, if the disadvantages are more then advantages the suggestion will be denied else it will have its final test, an in game quick voting.

We can set up specific days for suggestions, reviews and in game voting where everyone knows that from this date to this date is the day of suggestions, from this date to this date is the day of suggestion reviews and another day is the day of in game voting. It will be like a ritual.

-People who can make suggestions can be anyone.
-People who will review suggestions can be JCM+, ministers, staffs.

[CaptainPrice]

What I thought in the beginning was suggesting an anonymous way to make suggestions, but Uardo did this before me. Nevertheless, a better idea came up on my mind. I was thinking about the replacement of suggestions board by a new one which will be named Ministry of Server Development. What's this? This will be a totally new ministry which will be consisted only by the most trusted people of the community. These people could be elected by the administration of the server. After the election, everybody will freely have the chance to complaint about one, two or more of the elected persons by posting a complaint in Ministry of Fairness board so as to prevent statements like "He is not capable of doing this, wrong judgement by staffs" , etc.

In that board, everybody will have the chance to post suggestions as it happens with suggestions board nowadays. The elected ministers will supervise / manage every single suggestion and keep the ones that are worth of discussion, the ones which could be considered important enough for the server's development / improval. Once they gather a specific amount suggestions, they will let people vote on them. After getting the result there will be an in-game poll as well. One of the ministers will have to get online in a time of the day where most of people are online. Talking about 700+ players in-game. So, once he get this chance, he will proceed with the voting. If he recieve the same result (positive or negative) with the forum's one poll, the suggestion should be reported for addition. Otherwise, if most of people are negative towards the suggestion, the suggestion should be rejected. Also, in-game poll should be momentous. What I mean is that if a suggestion get downvoted by forum members and upvoted by in-game people, the in-game voting should be considered more important.

What I want to point out is that we should give attention especially to in-game voting progress, because we're talking about a huge amount of people who're voting for a suggestion in comparison with the number of people who're voting on forums.

That's what I thought. I believe that it will be a good solution. The bad thing is that it will definitely require industrious people to handle it in order to be performed succesfully. More work, better results.

[Sandy]

I like #7. Having it on IRC would stop the dumb people from suggesting stupid things aswell. Since most people that get on IRC have some sort of sense.

[iamBack]

I like #7. Having it on IRC would stop the dumb people from suggesting stupid things aswell. Since most people that get on IRC have some sort of sense.

Thought about it but only this

Ministers appoint deputies and together they make super suggestions

Which means that only a few amount of people will be able to come up with suggestion .

[Sandy]

Thought about it but only this Which means that only a few amount of people will be able to come up with suggestion .

Yes, that's good. Too many people and the suggestion becomes a mess.